Transcript: Trump Press Sec Loses Plot as Boat Bombing Scandal Worsens
Sargent: Yeah, I want to throw this in here, Jen. You got at this in your piece. But Jack Goldsmith—who is not exactly a liberal; he was the head of the Office of Legal Counsel under Republicans—he actually made the same point in a very careful analysis. He said that if the Post’s facts are right, then Admiral Bradley was under an obligation to not carry out the order to kill them all, right? I just want to make one other point about this real quick, Jen, and get your reaction to it. What Leavitt is essentially saying is the strike did happen, and then she’s sort of fudging on whether it was the result of Hegseth’s order or not—the second strike, I mean—and then saying that second strike is legal. Right? I don’t see how the argument is tenable at all.
Rubin: Correct. Now, two things. One, it’s not clear whether she’s disputing that he said give no quarter, which is essentially the same as kill them all. As we just said, however, that’s not relevant to whether Bradley committed an illegal act. I cannot imagine any set of facts in which this is lawful. And we don’t like to make the Nazi analogy, except where it’s relevant. And in this case, there actually happens to be a case from World War II, which I cite in my piece, in which a Nazi U-boat struck—blew up—a Greek steamer. There were a number of survivors. The commander of the U-boat interrogated these people, presumably still in the water, and then ordered that his men fire grenades and machine guns to complete the sinking of the ship and kill these people. All but three were killed. The Nazis were tried for war crimes after the war, and five of them, including the commander, were convicted. The only difference between that case and our case is at least the Nazis knew they were at war. We don’t even know that. So it is baffling to me how any administration could justify this. I suspect they’re going to have to backtrack and come up with some other explanation like, The admiral got it wrong, he was acting out of school, and see what he then says in his own defense.
Sargent: Well, to that point, I want to parse Leavitt’s quotes a little more. What’s critical is that she distances Hegseth from delivering any order directing the final strike against the two men. As you point out, it’s true that she doesn’t really mention or deal with the fact that he’s, you know, made the no quarter claim, but she does seem to be saying that Hegseth didn’t actually say kill them all, right? So she only acknowledges that Hegseth ordered the destruction of the boat, which leaves Admiral Bradley holding the bag. Now, as we reported at TNR.com—you can check that out—Representative Adam Smith, ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, now says Bradley is in talks about briefing the committee. Now, I don’t know if this is going to end up happening or not, but if it does, there are going to be some pretty important questions for Bradley now, right? What would you ask him?
