Transcript: Trump’s Threats to Jail Foes Just Got Darker and Scarier
Bier: Yeah, absolutely. [If] you look at everything they say on just immigration in general, they lie about who they’re going after. They say it’s all criminals and terrorists and people who are threats. You saw what they did with the Alien Enemies Act already with deporting hundreds of people based on their tattoos. I have a rose tattoo, therefore I’m a part of a criminal gang—and [you’re] going to incarcerate [me] indefinitely in a foreign prison. And he’s already talked about using that same strategy against U.S.-born citizens: deporting them and sending them to El Salvador. So, again, he’s talking about it enough to the point where this is actually something we need to really take seriously, particularly with his total disrespect for human rights and civil liberties more generally.
Sargent: Well, let me ask you this: How do you expect this to unfold concretely? Trump reopens the question of whether his naturalization was legit, and then it goes to court? What do you expect to actually happen?
Bier: Yeah. They would have to file a complaint in a district court. There’ll be 60 days for a response from the defense, and then you’d have basically arguments about what these provisions mean, what the evidence is. There’d be potentially discovery. It could take months or even longer for that to get sorted out. And then at some point, a judge is going to make a determination. You’re either a citizen or you’re not anymore. And it’s retroactive—so it would be as if saying he was never a citizen all the way back to his naturalization, basically obliterates his record of citizenship forever.
Sargent: I think it’s plausible that he could try something like this. He’s certainly crazy enough, and the MAGA movement is bloodthirsty enough to want this outcome. I want to cite another line from Mamdani’s response to Trump. He accused the president of “division, distraction and hate” and said “voters will resoundingly reject this in November”—he means in the general election for New York mayor. Two things about this. One, he accused Trump of “hate.” Democrats don’t use that word enough to describe what Trump or MAGA are doing. Two, he framed the general election around this, saying it’s a referendum on Trump’s attacks on New Yorkers. Again, If you send your secret police after immigrants, you’re sending your secret police after all of us. Now, I don’t know what’s going to happen in the general election, but I really like to hear Democrats talk that way. What do you think, David?
Bier: It’s important to really frame this as an assault on all Americans. That is the central fact about all of these actions that he is taking. If free speech doesn’t apply to noncitizens, then free speech rights are eroded for all people in the U.S. Again, if a government agent sees your social media post and thinks, Oh, he’s opposing the foreign policy of the U.S., comes and knocks on your door and demands citizenship papers from you.… If you have to show your citizenship papers to have free speech in the U.S., free speech in the U.S. is gone. That is the actual situation already in the U.S. because of these arrests of noncitizens. So again, this is a threat to all of us. All of the responses should focus not just on how this is going to mistreat naturalized citizens or immigrants. It’s everyone in the U.S. who is going to be threatened by this unlawful, unconstitutional government.
